Curse

Metanoia · Sep 01, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

TheMosesPHD, not everyone plays on a "chase the carrot" basis. There are people that, for some bizzare reason, play games because they actually enjoy them.

Ps. The metagame doesn't shift because people unlocked new skills...

Minus Sign · Sep 01, 2006, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

If enough people ask to buy FOW armor in the on line store, will ANET do it?
I mean it doesnt hurt anyone else its just a skin, it gives no unfair advantage in how you play the game? Lets all rally and ask for FOW armor to be in the on line store... I d pay 10 bucks a char for full FOW armor...

Probably, yes. If skills are not content, how can armor be? No one with FoW should complain if a Johnny comelately wants to get his FoW early. I mean, the upper tier players aren't complaining that all their hard work skill capping Prophecies is now a $40 purchase. I can't see anyone of them complaining about an armor skin thats oh so hard to get...lol

natuxatu · Sep 01, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Not that anyone listens to anyone elses post but I think its a fine idea. People wanted it and now they have it. PvP people didn't want to have to go through PvE to get all the skills unlocked and now they don't have to. To those that did..

1) You didn't pay an extra 39.99
2) Chances are you got some enjoyment out of the PvE aspect of the game.

Murchad · Sep 01, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

Hmmz. Instant gratification, eh? Where's the fun in that? You may think you want everything at once, but if your wish really came true, you'd get bored and unsatisfied very quickly. Within days or at the most a couple weeks you'd be asking, "what's next?", only to find that there is nothing else left to be had. As a human being you will always be searching for something more. It's just plain unhealthy to spoil yourself with everything all at once.

Nice generalization. Too bad it's not true. I don't care about "what's next?", I care about "who am I facing next?". There's plenty of players in Guild Wars who don't need a carrot dangled in front of their face to enjoy the game. I can't say I've ever heard anyone say "Well, I've been UAX for a week. GW sucks now that I can't spend faction." Do you really think so little of Guild Wars?

Gaile Gray · Sep 01, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by natuxatu

Not that anyone listens to anyone elses post but I think its a fine idea. People wanted it and now they have it. PvP people didn't want to have to go through PvE to get all the skills unlocked and now they don't have to. To those that did..

1) You didn't pay an extra 39.99
2) Chances are you got some enjoyment out of the PvE aspect of the game.

Thank you.

Yichi · Sep 01, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

This is the only problem that i have with this whole concept. Player x buys all the skill unlocks for pvp. everyone here says it does not affect pve in any way. well sorry to tel you this but you are dead wrong. in one of the recent updates all skills unlocked for pvp will show up at pve skill traders. now anyone who had the game or is buying the game can unlock whatever they need, then just make a pve char, get run, buy the couple handful of skills from the skil ltrader they want too, and still have no idea on how to play that character or what to do with those skills effectively.

This is a good thing for some people, many of the veteran players feel cheated in a way. I have played this game for thirteen months. thats a lot of time to put into UAX'ing my account for both prophecies and factions. UAX isnt a bad idea, but if i was forced into having to do it, why should the newer players who just buy the game instantly become 3/4 of the way towards what i have worked and grinded for?

Had this been available from the beginning to where proph players could have bought these, or was offered in a collectors like pvp edition of guildwars, i wouldnt have even though a blink to this. but forcing your long time players to have had to go through all the grind and playthrough all the storylines and earn the faction to unlock their accounts, the new players should have to do the same. You want the game to be equal, thats how, because as of this update, the game isnt equal. youre aleniating your vetran players who established this game for you, for the newer players. when havign the newer players to play the game like the veterans do, maybe then you would have a better playerbase which is based upon skill and time spent learnign the game.

nimloth32 · Sep 01, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

this update make me sick of gw d..sigh..

KurtTheBehemoth · Sep 01, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Thank you.

personally i like this feature. It gets those PvP nasties out of my PvE server. :P

lg5000 · Sep 01, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

This is the only problem that i have with this whole concept. Player x buys all the skill unlocks for pvp. everyone here says it does not affect pve in any way. well sorry to tel you this but you are dead wrong. in one of the recent updates all skills unlocked for pvp will show up at pve skill traders. now anyone who had the game or is buying the game can unlock whatever they need, then just make a pve char, get run, buy the couple handful of skills from the skil ltrader they want too, and still have no idea on how to play that character or what to do with those skills effectively.

Yeah, I thought about that too.. thing is, if you don't have prophecies, how do you get to LA to buy those skills? And if you do, what stopped you from spending 1k at ember light camp skill trader and then buying the skill for your new character in ascalon?

So all up, the UAS button does nothing for pve.

Jessyi · Sep 01, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

People may have judged this update a little harshly, and I admit when I saw it I raised an eyebrow myself. I think it's because people fear a slippery slope. Basically, if ANet offers a UAX package for skill unlocks, what else could be made available for sale in the future? I realize this isn't a particularly revelationary insight (people have suggested as such in this thread already) but it's worth explicitly pointing out.

If ANet leaves it at this, no damage done. If they did start selling materials for FoW armor for example, that would be too far over the line, but because of this update it's a possibility that isn't seen as being out of the question anymore. I think that's what people really object to.

-Jessyi

Coran Ironclaw · Sep 01, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20

* the new pvpers (wanting to pay more) will be competitive faster... great

* the pvp will be more refreshed.. great

* the new pvpers (unwanting to pay more) will be discriminated or will be unable to be competitive... TErrible BAD!

I really don't find the reason for charging for this type of thing!

(I do find a reason for charge for new charactar slot, i really love that on the store, but not this!)

IF the large amount of skills now are a problem for new pvpers to unlock, then be fair and provide a method to unlock prophecies skills a lot easier, but why the heck charge for them?

Under what term they charge for changing a bolean number on the already existing account data?

Helcaraxe · Sep 01, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

why don't they just start selling pre-made accounts? 1 level 20 of each class, with both 15 attribute point quests. 100% completed, and everything unlocked with 100k on each character.

It's practically the same thing.... you are buying an advantage.

xiao1985 · Sep 01, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

you won't become the best just because you brought skills you see....

poeple who brought skills but doesn't play though the game won't know how to kite, how to spike, how to come up with an effective, synergetic build...

number of skills avaliable is not all there is to the game....

NeHoMaR · Sep 01, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I hope that "official store" will be selling Brazil Soccer shirts for characters someday like Maplestory, Bullshit! Someday people will be spending more money with GW than any not "free online play" game like World of Warcraft. The only you need now is sell rank 12 for 100$, Bullshit! (I understand this is a business, but I don't like to see rich kids with more skills than me)

raca137 · Sep 01, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

I see so many people with frowns on their faces, and conspiricy theories running amuck. First of all Anet provides us with FREE online play. The cost of 2 delevopment teams, server costs, etc. racks up. Once agian the more money Anet can profit the bigger the company can grow. Maybe Anet can take that money and work harder to provide a quailty game , which they allready provide. (*cough* auction house *cough*)

So are some of you scared that a newbie is going to buy prochies skills, and all of a sudden start pwning because he has Glads Defense

Please, we all know pvp is based on skill and if they want to spend money to "improve" there pvp skills let them. They will only hurt themselfs in the long run with out learning the game. Which will let you pwn more noobs that are "Leet" with there new prochies skills

Lastly Anet does protect there pve content very very well. They remove bots, people using 3rd party programs, and keeps it from being "hacked" so to speak. Also remember the roll back when the traders reset? Prove they will not allow the economy to go into the toliet. They will not allow the GW economy to implode selling FoW armor or Ectos and Shards for $19.95 or any amount. They would have to be retarded to mess with PvE economy.

And if you dont like what they did to Guildwars QUIT. I will gladly take your account if you are unhappy with the game

It is amazing what the world looks like outside of the computer screen

Spallenzani · Sep 01, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

$40 is a small price to pay for never having to read another UAX-whining thread again.

Now that Anet implemented the EW pre-mades, no one can honestly complain that UAX is necessary. UAX is a luxury - a mostly useless luxury as far as the competitive player is concerned.

Back before decent pre-mades, and even before the Zaishen daily 1k free faction, I was able to unlock all of the skills, runes, and weapon mods needed to create a cookie-cutter boon prot on a friend's account in about two days worth of playing random arena. The vast majority of stuff to unlock - I would estimate more than 75% - is not needed for serious competitive play, and that's assuming you want to play every class.

If a friend on a budget wanted to start playing GuildWars and asked for my advice, I would recommend against purchasing this $40 UAS. A new player needs to learn basic game mechanics before contemplating more serious competitive play. The early parts of PvE of either campaign are useful for learning the interface (though with the introduction of the Isle of the Nameless, even this part of pve isn't as necessary anymore), and after that, the best place to learn pvp fundamentals is playing random and team arena. By the time the new player has learned enough to start playing seriously, she will have earned enough faction to modify the pre-mades with rune, skill, and weapon unlocks to play most of the builds seen on observer.

Shortly after a player reaches this point, prioritizing unlocks in the order of the most useful gives way to prioritizing unlocks in the order of the least useless. This is the point at which UAX becomes a pointless luxury - desirable only for purposes of vanity, satisfying latent OCD tendencies, and fodder for whiners who would rather complain about a game instead of play one.

[cross-posted elsewhere]

digimonizm · Sep 01, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

This is actually a pretty good idea, i mean games like maplestory are doing it so why shouldn't they. Too bad its not for pve chars, I love my warrior pve char even when I play pvp I take her to the island instead of making a brand new char for pvp.

They should make it so that people can buy green items and runes for their pve chars from there, it would be a one time payment at the store and in game you type in something like "superior vigor rune" and one would appear in your inventory

I would go for that in a milisec

*edit* also, i've seen many games on observer mode and most of those pro's have pve chars with pve weapons.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Sep 01, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

I would just like to point out that in order to spend this much money on skills, you have to be rather lazy. Even if you have no skills unlocked for PvP right now (and you will if you play a bit of PvE) there is an assortment of prebuilds that you can use to unlock skills. Even if you have zero social ability and are forced to only play in Random Arenas, you will still gain more faction than you really know what to do with after a very short amount of time.

Moreover, many of the Prophecies will never see any usefulness in PvP. Unlock what you need and forget about the rest.

If you pay for the unlocks, that's your decision. It's probably simply a waste of money though.

TheDragoon · Sep 01, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

This has greed written all over this I don't know where to begin.

Let's start with a couple of quotes from the ANET team.

Quote:

There are no gimmicks, hidden advertising, or fees in small print. You will not be paying in installments, or paying more than you would for any other AAA game. It just works exactly like you would expect: buy the game, play online for no additional charge, and when a new chapter comes out every six months or so, decide whether you think it is cool enough to buy.

from http://www.telefragged.com/interviews/guildwars/

Quote:

Some fans seem so surprised by our announcement that we're eliminating the monthly fee that they think we must have something up our sleeves.

From http://pc.ign.com/articles/400/400429p1.html

Quote:

The issue of unlocking all skills has been rather controversial. What is your take on this issue?
James Phinney: I can certainly appreciate why it is that people bring up the idea of an Unlock All Skills button. Given access to a large number of skills, Guild Wars becomes a very strategically rich experience. My belief is that this richness should be available to all players, however, not just those who would want UAS.

From http://pc.ign.com/articles/645/645612p1.html

Hmm so from my understanding, GW initially set out to have no gimmicks with not thing up their sleeve when it comes to their business model. Furthermore, ANET believe that UAS will give players a richer strategically experience and that this richness should be available to everyone ... if you have the time, and in this recent event, the money.

From a business point of view, it is reasonably understandable that extra storage/slots cost money because we defend ANET that it might cost them additional database storage as well as storage for logs etc. So the pricing seem reasonable because there is a mark up over an explicit cost.

Now as for the Unlock Skill, I question the "cost" that is involve in implementing this to each individidual beside a small script is run. So basically, this product is sold purely on the perception of how much the player NEED. Where do this NEED comes from? From the game itself, the grind that was introduce into a game where it is announce as a "competitive game" where "skill is over time".

Now I know that this forum is predominantly PvE so most of you really don't care about this implementation, so I will try to put this into your perspective. The grind to unlock skill to a PvP player is very much the same as a grind for PvE player to get FoW armor. PvP players need them for flexibility as PvE player need FoW armor for looks.
So imagine what happen if FoW armor is sold in the same packaged product as a PvP skill?

Effectively, the Unlock skills package is balthazaa faction points but instead of selling the faction points they just sell us the skills so we have to buy all. Faction points for a PvPer is like gold for a PvEr. Without it you can't get a better character. So ask yourself this. Is this any better than a bot selling gold on ebay?
What if Anet start selling gold as well I mean why would that affect balance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

We won't offer gold for sale, for instance, or "instant-levels" or other things such as that. I don't imagine you'll see "Uber Items of Deadliness" that cause all others to fall to uselessness. We care too much about balance and about the viability of our game in the short-term and in the long-term to take risks with sales that would unsettle things.

Why not gold? It doesn't change the balance? People don't have to buy it and can still farm gold and people who already have everything they don't need it. Furthermore, gold don't make people more powerful, just look better so why not gold?
You are basically selling the time saved to unlock skills. Very much the same way as bots farmer selling gold to save time from farming for gold. So why not gold next?
Is it because, there is this common conception of buying gold online is evil while faction points in disguised as skill unlocked is basically a valuable non-tradeable currency?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I see what is being offered as a very good compromise between the request of many different types of players, one that addresses the concerns of both PvE and PvP players. We'll be listening to your thoughts, by all means, and will certainly afford them careful consideration as we move forward with a careful and conservative plan for enlarging the Guild Wars Official Store in ways that are only positive.

Actually you don't see. People asking for skill unlock in hope of making this game a competitive game. Game that can be played in the true spirites of competition where all sides are equal at the start of the battle. Instead you decide to make money out of this. It is not a good compromise because the grind was introduced by ANET and is removed at a cost by ANET.
Tell me how different is this from M$ creating a buggy software that can be attacked easily by virus and ask people to pay for anti-virus and bug fixing.
Tell me how different is this from internet company slowing down people online business until they pay more money. [Net neutrality]

Basically, Anet has step over the line that separate game developers from company. My hat's off to you and I hope EA and Blizzard will be more warmer to you on that side.

sotodefonk · Sep 01, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

i hope the next thing available will be stacks of ectos... wait a minute... this is not like ebay???